[menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity
Carlos M. Martinez
carlosm3011 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 28 16:38:35 UTC 2013
There is an interesting undercurrent here... what is now the value that
the DNS system provides ? What is the value of domain names ?
I'm actually not completely convinced that typing URLs will completely
vanish from the earth, as they are a convenient way of exchanging
pointers to bits of information.
However, it's pretty clear that the value of the names themselves is not
what it used to be.
And another random thought: should we start thinking about URLs and
domain names more as indexes into search engines databases ? This would
completely change the business model of domain name industry, something
that might be not entirely bad.
cheers!
~Carlos
On 10/28/13, 12:25 PM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
> I mean there is less interest and value since navigation on the Internet
> has moved away from typing URLs into browsers.. app based devices and
> better search engines along with integration with browsers means most
> users are not remembering and typing URLs and instead using more
> seamless methods to navigate.
>
> Similarly with the "www" point which is also true with "http://" - many
> years ago this was necessary as a lot of services other than www
> co-existing on the Internet and there was confusion with users, every
> day terminology and the expectation of the technology. Nowadays, if you
> type "apple" into your browser you will find your way immediately to
> Apple without needing the http, www or the .com ... in fact, if you use
> an iPad or iTunes you dont even need to know the URLs, its all built
> into the apps which are preloaded into the device.
>
> eg enter "خليج" into your browser.. my first hit is "خليج - ويكيبيديا،
> الموسوعة الحرة" and my second is "خليج سيهات" etc ... but the websites
> are "http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/خليج" and
> "http://www.khaleejsaihat.com/" - both non-IDN, but if I only spoke
> arabic and didn't even understand the latin alphabet it wouldn't matter
> since the URL isn't important for me.
>
> I'm not saying there shouldn't be IDNs or that having your company's
> name in arabic isn't important, just that users are not as focussed on
> the domain name any more therefore adoption is slower since priority is
> going elsewhere ie in content and apps.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 28 October 2013 16:12, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com
> <mailto:ahmed at tamkien.com>> wrote:
>
> Please elaborate on what is 10 years too late, do you mean IDN is late ?
>
> -Ahmed
>
>
> *From:* Stephen Wilcox <mailto:steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 2:53 PM
> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <mailto:ahmed at tamkien.com>
> *Cc:* Timothy Roy <mailto:Timothy at tra.gov.om> ; mailto:menog at menog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity
>
>
> Not wishing to sound skeptical, but isnt this all coming about 10
> years too late and thats the reason for the lack of adoption?
>
> The device of choice is a smartphone or tablet, these are app and
> icon based.
>
> Being old fashioned I still use a computer but mostly find things,
> even common websites by inputting the common name into a search bar
> (or browser bar - Chrome doesnt distinguish) and the result is a
> clickable list of search results, which will be in the local script
> and language.
>
> eg the average user never inputs urls anyway, but when they do they
> likely input arabic text directly to the browser for a search term
> and get a list of website titles and then click them. they dont pay
> attention to the underlying URL that much any more
>
> Compare to this address books on mobile phones. In the 90s I could
> tell you anyone's phone number from memory, now I know maybe my own
> and my Mums and thats about it..
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28 October 2013 08:38, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com
> <mailto:ahmed at tamkien.com>> wrote:
>
> The Arabic version of "net" would come at the beginning of the
> domain name, as we don't have an equivalent of "www". Thus in
> Oman's case it would still end in .oman in Arabic.
>
> IMO, as techies we may not be the best ones to judge which is
> better, ie. to keep an equivalent of www or drop it. The domain
> name's marketing staff should decide on this, with the aim of
> gaining more interest to their website if promoting an Arabic
> IDN. Registrar's may provide both options to their customers to
> encourage Arabic IDN adoption.
>
> Regards,
> -Ahmed
>
>
> On 2013-10-28, at 8:05 AM, Timothy Roy <Timothy at tra.gov.om
> <mailto:Timothy at tra.gov.om>> wrote:
>
>> I believe that the Arabic version of net would cause more
>> confusion. I think that keeping simpler is better. I know that
>> here in Oman we have been pushing and promoting the
>> .oman(Arabic) IDN quite extensively. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I also believe that for an organization to actually have the
>> Arabic content and URL they need to access their market. If
>> they want to reach or promote their business to the MENOG
>> regions (or regions of their specific country) that have a
>> lesser comprehension of English language then they should go
>> for it. As a registry we are trying to promote it but it is
>> mainly up to the Registrars to promote it to obtain more
>> business in this field of domain names.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> My quick observations.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Best Regards____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *Timothy Roy____*
>>
>> *Regulatory and Compliance Unit____*
>>
>> *Domain Name Operations____*
>>
>> *Telecommunications Regulatory Authority.*____
>>
>> *Tel: +968 24574858 <tel:%2B968%2024574858>____*
>>
>> *Mobile: +968 93551117 <tel:%2B968%2093551117>____*
>>
>> *Email: **timothy at tra.gov.om <mailto:timothy at tra.gov.om>**____*
>>
>> Office hours: Sunday – Thursday, 7:30am – 3:00pm (Muscat GMT
>> +4)____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From:*menog-bounces at lists.menog.org
>> <mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org>
>> [mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org
>> <mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org>] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed
>> Abu-Abed
>> *Sent:* 28 October 2013 08:55
>> *To:* Fahd Batayneh
>> *Cc:* menog at menog. net
>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I agree, the term “www” may seem redundant at first look, but
>> it certainly indicates what is coming next is a web site. In
>> other words, it is like a “Mr.” or “Dr.” title that give you a
>> rough idea of the person you are referring to. ____
>>
>> Should we have an Arabic “www” equivalent to grab peoples
>> attention to Arabic IDN ? Something like نت (translated into
>> “net”) so instead of عمان.الاردن the website owner should
>> promote نت.عمان..الاردن____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> This will likely get more attention to Arabic IDNs.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> My 0.02 Dinar thoughts ...____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> -Ahmed____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From:*Fahd Batayneh <mailto:fahd.batayneh at icann.org> ____
>>
>> *Sent:*Monday, October 28, 2013 12:23 AM____
>>
>> *To:*Ahmed Abu-Abed <mailto:ahmed at tamkien..com> ____
>>
>> *Cc:*mailto:menog at menog.net ____
>>
>> *Subject:*RE: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I have actually seen Arabic URLs posted in public areas in the
>> UAE, yet it is not gaining the marketing advantages it seeks.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> There have been discussions within New gTLD applicants on
>> whether to encourage New gTLD registrants (once these new
>> gTLDs are delegated and are generally available) to advertise
>> their online presence using “www” in front of the URL or not;
>> i.e. www.menog.anything <http://www.menog.anything> vs.
>> menog.anything. For those who might not know, the inventor of
>> the term “www” in front of URLs has admitted that such an
>> addition was a mistake in the first place. Yet, after thorough
>> discussions, those involved have concluded that in order for
>> people to understand what menog.anythingis, it is best that
>> “www” is added in front of the URL for advertising purposes. I
>> believe this to be the case for IDNs we well; i.e. some just
>> don’t understand what مثال.اختبارis.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> My 2 cents.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Fahd____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From:*menog-bounces at lists.menog.org
>> <mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org>
>> [mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org
>> <mailto:menog-bounces at lists.menog.org>] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed
>> Abu-Abed
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:51 PM
>> *To:* Tom Paseka
>> *Cc:* menog at menog. net
>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Hi Tom,____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Country code TLDs have been available since 2010 for 4 Arab
>> countries at least. Unfortunately its not on most peoples
>> priority list for implementing, and I have not noticed any
>> advertising for an Arabic URL over the past couple of years (I
>> live in the MENOG region).____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> As for CloudFlares IDNs, it would be good to filter out which
>> are using the Arabic alphabet and know how many Arabic IDNs
>> are actually out there. That would require a good
>> understanding of Punycode used to translate an IDN into Latin
>> characters.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Regards,____
>>
>> -Ahmed____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From:*Tom Paseka <mailto:tom+menog at cloudflare.com> ____
>>
>> *Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:20 PM____
>>
>> *To:*Ahmed Abu-Abed <mailto:ahmed at tamkien.com> ____
>>
>> *Cc:*mailto:menog at menog.net ____
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Hi Ahmed, ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I've had a look through CloudFlare's customers and we see
>> thousands of IDN's, but this is nothing compared to what
>> exists in pre-existing romanized domains. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> For a pre-existing company to move to a IDN, or any new domain
>> in general, they have to revamp their presence, re-market to
>> everyone to make sure they visit the correct address. I assume
>> this isn't an easy task. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I suspect you'll see new starters coming out from the get-go
>> with an IDN, but it'll take a while for the existing content
>> to start adoption.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Cheers,____
>>
>> Tom____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Ahmed Abu-Abed
>> <ahmed at tamkien.com <mailto:ahmed at tamkien.com>> wrote:____
>>
>> ICANN is in the news with the new شبكة TLD, see
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24637673____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I am yet to see Arabic TLDs widely implemented, although most
>> browsers are ready, even on iOS and Android which I tested
>> with an Arabic URL. Any idea on why is the delay in
>> implementing Arabic URL by content providers (newspapers,
>> etc.) ? People in the region prefer Arabic websites, so I am
>> wondering what’s stopping content providers from having Arabic
>> URLs.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Also, anyone know if major portals, like Google or Yahoo, have
>> implemented IDNs in any language for their URL ? Something
>> like ياهو.شبكة (which translates to Yahoo.net
>> <http://Yahoo.net> , as I cannot find an equivalent to .com as
>> an Arabic TLD).____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Best Regards,____
>>
>> Ahmed Abu-Abed____
>>
>> ____
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Menog mailing list
>> Menog at lists.menog.org <mailto:Menog at lists.menog.org>
>> http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog____
>>
>
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> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK.
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>
>
>
> --
> Director / Founder
> IX Reach Ltd
> E: steve.wilcox at ixreach.com <mailto:steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
> M: +44 7966 048633
> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK.
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