[menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity

Tue Oct 29 16:12:08 UTC 2013

Hi Steve,

 I agree with you...!!!!

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>wrote:

> Hi Ahmed,
>  I agree it won't go away and is less than before - but on your second
> point, remembering a site URL, I would suggest, is not easier than
> searching for the company or service name in a browser search bar or
> clicking on the iTunes app.
>
> Russia and Korea aren't really comparable - they are two highly developed
> independent markets in terms of technology, resources and experience in the
> Internet field, with very advanced software produced domestically. In
> Russia, sites such as Yandex (Яндекс.рф) and mail.ru dominate the user
> base and a typical user with their Russian keyboard, Russian operating
> system, Russian browser using their domestically produced search engine
> (Яндекс.рф) which produces a list of locally hosted sites and services
> developed specifically for the Russian market (as opposed to google.com,
> facebook.com, microsoft.com which are English made to fit into Arabic
> with few developers in region).
>
> I don't think these will be comparable until such time as there is an
> Arabic technological centre - producing software engineers, advanced
> software and hardware integration. And the opposite is currently true; 90%+
> of Arabic websites are hosted outside the region, mostly in the US;
> compared to nearly all (I can't find a percent) Russian websites are hosted
> within Russia fully on Russian infrastructure.
>
> Another sample data point - Arabic is the 5th most spoken language (280m
> native speakers), Russian is the 8th (160m native speakers) yet Russian is
> the 2nd most common language on the web.
>
>
> I think is part of a wider interesting topic, perhaps one for future
> debates at MENOG meetings. This is that in spite of the population and
> wealth of the Arabic region, the region has typically not invested in local
> innovation or initiatives or where it has it has tended to throw money at
> pet projects but the benefits of these are generally felt most by the
> foreign partners, works or few rich financiers who back the projects. More
> Arabic IDNs, more local centres of skill, more cooperation between nations
> who currently compete to produce 5 average results instead of 1 global
> leader, more initiatives for local web hosting and software production that
> can compete on skill and price with Hyderabad, Seoul, Silicon Valley etc
> would go a long way.
>
> Kind regards
> Steve
>
>
> On 29 October 2013 05:12, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com> wrote:
>
>>   Typing in URLs is less than before, but it won’t go away. And its much
>> easier to remember a sites name in one’s native language and script.
>>
>> That’s why we are looking for ways to increase Arabic IDN adoption, while
>> Russian and Korean IDN have been very successful commercially and in
>> consumer uptake (see the reports Baher Esmat sent yesterday).
>>
>> Regards
>> -Ahmed
>>
>>
>>  *From:* Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 7:25 PM
>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com>
>> *Cc:* Timothy Roy <Timothy at tra.gov.om> ; mailto:menog at menog.net<menog at menog.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity
>>
>>  I mean there is less interest and value since navigation on the
>> Internet has moved away from typing URLs into browsers.. app based devices
>> and better search engines along with integration with browsers means most
>> users are not remembering and typing URLs and instead using more seamless
>> methods to navigate.
>>
>> Similarly with the "www" point which is also true with "http://" - many
>> years ago this was necessary as a lot of services other than www
>> co-existing on the Internet and there was confusion with users, every day
>> terminology and the expectation of the technology. Nowadays, if you type
>> "apple" into your browser you will find your way immediately to Apple
>> without needing the http, www or the .com ... in fact, if you use an iPad
>> or iTunes you dont even need to know the URLs, its all built into the apps
>> which are preloaded into the device.
>>
>> eg enter "خليج" into your browser.. my first hit is "خليج - ويكيبيديا،
>> الموسوعة الحرة" and my second is "خليج سيهات" etc ... but the websites are "
>> http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/خليج‎" and "http://www.khaleejsaihat.com/‎"
>> - both non-IDN, but if I only spoke arabic and didn't even understand the
>> latin alphabet it wouldn't matter since the URL isn't important for me.
>>
>> I'm not saying there shouldn't be IDNs or that having your company's name
>> in arabic isn't important, just that users are not as focussed on the
>> domain name any more therefore adoption is slower since priority is going
>> elsewhere ie in content and apps.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 October 2013 16:12, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   Please elaborate on what is 10 years too late, do you mean IDN is
>>> late ?
>>>
>>> -Ahmed
>>>
>>>
>>>  *From:* Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 2:53 PM
>>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com>
>>> *Cc:* Timothy Roy <Timothy at tra.gov.om> ; mailto:menog at menog.net<menog at menog.net>
>>>  *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity
>>>
>>>
>>> Not wishing to sound skeptical, but isnt this all coming about 10 years
>>> too late and thats the reason for the lack of adoption?
>>>
>>> The device of choice is a smartphone or tablet, these are app and icon
>>> based.
>>>
>>> Being old fashioned I still use a computer but mostly find things, even
>>> common websites by inputting the common name into a search bar (or browser
>>> bar - Chrome doesnt distinguish) and the result is a clickable list of
>>> search results, which will be in the local script and language.
>>>
>>> eg the average user never inputs urls anyway, but when they do they
>>> likely input arabic text directly to the browser for a search term and get
>>> a list of website titles and then click them. they dont pay attention to
>>> the underlying URL that much any more
>>>
>>> Compare to this address books on mobile phones. In the 90s I could tell
>>> you anyone's phone number from memory, now I know maybe my own and my Mums
>>> and thats about it..
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 October 2013 08:38, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  The Arabic version of "net" would come at the beginning of the domain
>>>> name, as we don't have an equivalent of "www". Thus in Oman's case it would
>>>> still end in .oman in Arabic.
>>>>
>>>> IMO, as techies we may not be the best ones to judge which is better,
>>>> ie. to keep an equivalent of www or drop it. The domain name's marketing
>>>> staff should decide on this, with the aim of gaining more interest to their
>>>> website if promoting an Arabic IDN. Registrar's may provide both options to
>>>> their customers to encourage Arabic IDN adoption.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> -Ahmed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-10-28, at 8:05 AM, Timothy Roy <Timothy at tra.gov.om> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   I believe that the Arabic version of net would cause more confusion.
>>>> I think that keeping simpler is better. I know that here in Oman we have
>>>> been pushing and promoting the .oman(Arabic) IDN quite extensively. ***
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I also believe that for an organization to actually have the Arabic
>>>> content and URL they need to access their market. If they want to reach or
>>>> promote their business to the MENOG regions (or regions of their specific
>>>> country) that have a lesser comprehension of English language then they
>>>> should go for it.  As a registry we are trying to promote it but it is
>>>> mainly up to the Registrars to promote it to obtain more business in this
>>>> field of domain names.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> My quick observations.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Timothy Roy*
>>>>
>>>> *Regulatory and Compliance Unit*
>>>>
>>>> *Domain Name Operations*
>>>>
>>>> *Telecommunications Regulatory Authority.*****
>>>>
>>>> *Tel: +968 24574858 <%2B968%2024574858>*
>>>>
>>>> *Mobile: +968 93551117 <%2B968%2093551117>*
>>>>
>>>> *Email: **timothy at tra.gov.om***
>>>>
>>>> Office hours: Sunday – Thursday, 7:30am – 3:00pm (Muscat GMT +4)****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> *From:* menog-bounces at lists.menog.org [mailto:
>>>> menog-bounces at lists.menog.org] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Abu-Abed
>>>> *Sent:* 28 October 2013 08:55
>>>> *To:* Fahd Batayneh
>>>> *Cc:* menog at menog. net
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I agree, the term “www” may seem redundant at first look, but it
>>>> certainly indicates what is coming next is a web site. In other words, it
>>>> is like a “Mr.” or “Dr.” title that give you a rough idea of the person you
>>>> are referring to. ****
>>>>
>>>> Should we have an Arabic “www” equivalent to grab peoples attention to
>>>> Arabic IDN ? Something like نت  (translated into “net”) so instead of
>>>> عمان.الاردن  the website owner should promote   نت.عمان..الاردن ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> This will likely get more attention to Arabic IDNs.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> My 0.02 Dinar thoughts ...****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> -Ahmed****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Fahd Batayneh <fahd.batayneh at icann.org> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 12:23 AM****
>>>>
>>>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien..com> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Cc:* mailto:menog at menog.net <menog at menog.net> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I have actually seen Arabic URLs posted in public areas in the UAE, yet
>>>> it is not gaining the marketing advantages it seeks.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> There have been discussions within New gTLD applicants on whether to
>>>> encourage New gTLD registrants (once these new gTLDs are delegated and are
>>>> generally available) to advertise their online presence using “www” in
>>>> front of the URL or not; i.e. www.menog.anything vs. menog.anything.
>>>> For those who might not know, the inventor of the term “www” in front of
>>>> URLs has admitted that such an addition was a mistake in the first place.
>>>> Yet, after thorough discussions, those involved have concluded that in
>>>> order for people to understand what menog.anything is, it is best that
>>>> “www” is added in front of the URL for advertising purposes. I believe this
>>>> to be the case for IDNs we well; i.e. some just don’t understand what
>>>> مثال.اختبار is.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Fahd****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> *From:* menog-bounces at lists.menog.org [mailto:
>>>> menog-bounces at lists.menog.org] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Abu-Abed
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:51 PM
>>>> *To:* Tom Paseka
>>>> *Cc:* menog at menog. net
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Country code TLDs have been available since 2010 for 4 Arab countries
>>>> at least. Unfortunately its not on most peoples priority list for
>>>> implementing, and I have not noticed any advertising for an Arabic URL over
>>>> the past couple of years (I live in the MENOG region).****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> As for CloudFlares IDNs, it would be good to filter out which are using
>>>> the Arabic alphabet and know how many Arabic IDNs are actually out there.
>>>> That would require a good understanding of Punycode used to translate an
>>>> IDN into Latin characters.****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Regards,****
>>>>
>>>> -Ahmed****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Tom Paseka <tom+menog at cloudflare.com> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:20 PM****
>>>>
>>>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Cc:* mailto:menog at menog.net <menog at menog.net> ****
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ahmed, ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I've had a look through CloudFlare's customers and we see thousands of
>>>> IDN's, but this is nothing compared to what exists in pre-existing
>>>> romanized domains. ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> For a pre-existing company to move to a IDN, or any new domain in
>>>> general, they have to revamp their presence, re-market to everyone to make
>>>> sure they visit the correct address. I assume this isn't an easy task.
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I suspect you'll see new starters coming out from the get-go with an
>>>> IDN, but it'll take a while for the existing content to start adoption.
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,****
>>>>
>>>> Tom****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Ahmed Abu-Abed <ahmed at tamkien.com>
>>>> wrote:****
>>>>
>>>> ICANN is in the news with the new شبكة  TLD, see
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24637673****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> I am yet to see Arabic TLDs widely implemented, although most browsers
>>>> are ready, even on iOS and Android which I tested with an Arabic URL. Any
>>>> idea on why is the delay in implementing Arabic URL by content providers
>>>> (newspapers, etc.) ? People in the region prefer Arabic websites, so I am
>>>> wondering what’s stopping content providers from having Arabic URLs.***
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Also, anyone know if major portals, like Google or Yahoo, have
>>>> implemented IDNs in any language for their URL ? Something like
>>>> ياهو.شبكة  (which translates to Yahoo.net , as I cannot find an
>>>> equivalent to .com as an Arabic TLD).****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,****
>>>>
>>>> Ahmed Abu-Abed****
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Menog mailing list
>>>> Menog at lists.menog.org
>>>> http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Menog at lists.menog.org
>>>> http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Director / Founder
>>> IX Reach Ltd
>>> E: steve.wilcox at ixreach.com
>>> M: +44 7966 048633 <%2B44%207966%20048633>
>>> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Director / Founder
>> IX Reach Ltd
>> E: steve.wilcox at ixreach.com
>> M: +44 7966 048633
>> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Director / Founder
> IX Reach Ltd
> E: steve.wilcox at ixreach.com
> M: +44 7966 048633
> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK.
>
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