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--></style></head><body lang=en-JO link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>Scott and All,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>The <i>London Internet Exchange (LINX)</i> organized a webinar on the same topic entitled “</span><i><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>New IP, China's project to make new Internet standards: you must ask the right question</span></i><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>”. The presenter is <i>Emily Taylor</i> from OXIL. You can find the YouTube recording here >> <a href="https://youtu.be/whPiAFT-zVY" title="https://youtu.be/whPiAFT-zVY"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://youtu.be/whPiAFT-zVY</span></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>The webinar looked at aspects like economic motivation, economic benefits… amongst others. The 1 hour video is worth watching.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>Thank you,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>Fahd</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><menog-bounces@lists.menog.org> on behalf of scott weeks <surfer@mauigateway.com><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:21 AM<br><b>To: </b>"menog@lists.menog.org" <menog@lists.menog.org><br><b>Subject: </b>[Ext] Re: [menog] [Paper] New IP<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Top posting as the original is long; it's in full at the bottom.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Some of this makes no sense. It is a case of asking for everything one <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>can think of in the hopes of getting what one originally wants. (Erdogan <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>calls it the "dance of the peacock") That person can then say "I gave <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>up all these things just to show I am working with everyone in good <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>faith....all I want is "X"". In this case "X" is the ability to surveil <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>everyone at all times.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"/The requirements perceived for these use cases demand bandwidth on the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>order of one terabit per second per-flow, sub-millisecond latency, and <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>zero packet loss."<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/How will one have sub-millisecond latency and Tbps bandwidth with zero <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>packet loss between humans on the moon and earth, for example? How <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>about when we get humans to Mars and beyond? (DTN is how: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dtn/documents__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75cAtxfWw$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dtn/documents__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75cAtxfWw$</a> ) That can't happen due to <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>physics, so it seems they want to build a spy network parallel to 'the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>internet'. Not take over 'the internet'.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"/New IP advances the idea of a strong regulatory binding between an IP <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>address and a user"<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/This, I believe, is what it is all about. The "X", above. Being able <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to surveil everyone and spy on everything they do.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The ultimate non-starter is this: "/it cannot be compatible with the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>existing deployed IPv4- or IPv6-based infrastructure. As such, New IP <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>would have to be deployed in parallel with the current Internet <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>infrastructure, interconnecting via gateways."<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are they thinking they will build the "New IP Network" and attempt to <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>force (economic, political, physical or ???) every network in the world <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to attach to the "New IP Network"? That ain't gonna happen without <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>major force of some sort applied to the world's network owners. So, at <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>best they will force a small subset of the world's networks to do that <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and those networks will not be able to communicate with the rest of the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>world's networks who refuse to connect. Sadly, the users on those <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>networks would be left in the dust of history.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>scott<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/29/20 6:23 AM, Fahd Batayneh wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Friends and Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>ICANN’s /Office the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)/ has published a <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>new paper entitled “*New IP*”; which, you can access online here >> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/octo-017-en.pdf__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75C01GSnA$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/octo-017-en.pdf__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75C01GSnA$</a> .<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/Network 2030 was a focus group (FG) created by the Telecommunication <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Standardization Sector (ITU-T) Study Group 13 “to carry out a broad <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>analysis for future networks towards 2030 and beyond. In order to <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>formulate a right vision, this FG is expected to identify the gaps and <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>challenges based on the latest networking technologies, and derive <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>fundamental requirements from novel use cases.” The Network 2030 Focus <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Group concluded in July 2020, envisioning a number of futuristic use <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>cases, ranging from “holographic communications” to “tactile <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Internet,” “Digital Twins,” and “Industrial IoT.” The requirements <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>perceived for these use cases demand bandwidth on the order of one <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>terabit per second per-flow, sub-millisecond latency, and zero packet <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>loss. These requirements seem unlikely to be ubiquitously realizable <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>in the assumed timeframe of ten years from now./<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>//<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/New IP is driven by Huawei and its subsidiary, Futurewei. New IP’s <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>relationship to Network 2030 is unclear because New IP proponents tend <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>to use the two names interchangeably. At best, New IP can be seen as a <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>set of desired features to implement the use case described in Network <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2030. However, there are no publicly available, definitive, and <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>complete descriptions of what New IP is. As such, it can only be seen <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>at best as “work in progress” and cannot be fully analyzed and <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>compared to a standard such as the TCP/IP protocol suite. Hints can be <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>found in Huawei blogs, a Futurewei Internet Draft submitted to the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), slides from a guest talk at an <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) conference, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and in an ITU-T liaison statement to the IETF. At a high level, New IP <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>architecture introduces variable length addresses; reintroduces <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>circuit-switched-like principles in what is dubbed “better than best <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>effort networking”; suggests an approach to enable packets to embed <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>contracts to be enforced by intermediary network elements in a way <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>that is reminiscent of active networks where packets contain code to <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>be executed by routers and switches; and presents the concept of <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>“ManyNets” where instead of a single network, the Internet would <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>become a patchwork of networks loosely interconnected via gateways. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>New IP advances the idea of a strong regulatory binding between an IP <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>address and a user. If deployed, such techniques could make pervasive <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>monitoring much easier because it would allow any intermediary element <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(router, switch, and so on) to have full access to exactly which user <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>is doing what. Similarly, content providers would have access to the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>identity of every user connecting to them. This could dramatically <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>increase the oversight of published content./<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>//<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/Although New IP can use a new variable length addressing type, IPv4, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>IPv6, or any combination of the above, it cannot be compatible with <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the existing deployed IPv4- or IPv6-based infrastructure. As such, New <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>IP would have to be deployed in parallel with the current Internet <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>infrastructure, interconnecting via gateways. Any significant <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>deployment would probably face decades-long timelines./<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>More papers published by OCTO can be found here >> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/resources/pages/octo-publications-2019-05-24-en__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c742_QRWJw$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/octo-publications-2019-05-24-en__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c742_QRWJw$</a> .<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>*Fahd Batayneh*<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>ICANN<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Menog mailing list<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Menog@lists.menog.org">Menog@lists.menog.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c76BE0__PA$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c76BE0__PA$</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Menog mailing list<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Menog@lists.menog.org">Menog@lists.menog.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c76BE0__PA$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c76BE0__PA$</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>