[menog] RE: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Peering

Fahad AlShirawi fahad at 2connectbahrain.com
Tue Aug 7 18:47:08 GMT 2007



I'll check. That was a very good presentation you gave on Saudi. By the way,
how has Bayanat's network changed since last MENOG? If it's not
confidential, share? We'd all like to see what's happening. Also, STC
doesn't really peer anywhere. They simply allow a Tier 1 into the country
for a revenue share. IP Transit is with Teleglobe, MPLS currently with AT&T,
Orange, FT, and Equant (Yes I know, the last three belong to the same


It's actually not as bad a business model as it sounds. First of all, they
own the network. Saudi is huge. Maintaining a network the size of STC's
takes a lot. Secondly, they insure new services are available immediately
under their umbrella. It gives them time to develop their own in the future
without being at a huge competitive disadvantage. Finally, sunset clause
helps a little.


By the way, just a thought, has anyone run a reliability and performance
test between GCC countries? I'd love to test from our network to that of
ISPs in the region. I think it will give us a better picture than 'pictures'
on how our traffic is all being routed. 


Also, what performance degradation do various levels of content filtering
introduce. Last point: Bill, you want to share with us your views on content







From: menog-bounces at menog.net [mailto:menog-bounces at menog.net] On Behalf Of
Osama Dosary (dosary)
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:47 PM
To: Bill Woodcock; Baher Esmat
Cc: menog at menog.net; Salman Al-Mannai; Kais Al-Essa
Subject: RE: [menog] RE: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Peering


I really like how Bill put it. Now to put things into perspective with
regards to the Saudi market:
- Only the big guys (STC, Bayanat, and ITC) are allowed to peer
internationally because of content filtering role they also perform
- the little guys (who need to peer most) can only do so within Saudi, are
mostly satisfied by the current peering point
So no near change likely to happen for Saudi.
(Are my slides still on the menog site? If they are thye help with Saudi

Sent by Mobile Phone on Good Messaging (www.good.com)

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Bill Woodcock [mailto:woody at pch.net]
Sent:   Monday, August 06, 2007 06:58 PM W. Europe Standard Time
To:     Baher Esmat
Cc:     menog at menog.net; 'Salman Al-Mannai'; 'Kais Al-Essa'
Subject:        RE: [menog] RE: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Peering

      On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Baher Esmat wrote:
    > I must also say that I was a little bit puzzled with parts of the
    > as it appeared to me that we're not differentiating between the
    > like STC, Batelco, ect., (those incumbents are also ISPs) and other
    > ISPs. My understanding is that the Incumbents whether they have
    > peeing among themselves or peer via IXPs, they remain the big guys who
    > the customers as well as most of the traffic. The small ISPs on the
    > hand have to have their own IXP setups and hence be in better
positions to
    > negotiate better deals with Incumbents, or with upstream providers if
    > are allowed to connect directly to them.

Another way of putting it is to say that everyone needs to peer, in order
to grow.  The big guys know this (they couldn't have gotten big if they
didn't), and will always peer, whether internationally (in London or
Amsterdam or Hong Kong or elsewhere), or across private bilateral sessions
between each other.

It's the little guys who need the IXPs, in order to be able to efficiently
compete with that, and peer as well.  If the big guys grow, and the little
guys don't, you've got an increase in the digital divide problem.  If
everyone grows, the whole market grows, and more new service is available
to all potential customers at lower, more competitive prices.


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