[menog] [Paper] New IP

Mon Nov 30 06:25:46 UTC 2020

Scott and All,

The London Internet Exchange (LINX) organized a webinar on the same topic entitled “New IP, China's project to make new Internet standards: you must ask the right question”. The presenter is Emily Taylor from OXIL. You can find the YouTube recording here >> https://youtu.be/whPiAFT-zVY.

The webinar looked at aspects like economic motivation, economic benefits… amongst others. The 1 hour video is worth watching.

Thank you,

Fahd

From: <menog-bounces at lists.menog.org> on behalf of scott weeks <surfer at mauigateway.com>
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:21 AM
To: "menog at lists.menog.org" <menog at lists.menog.org>
Subject: [Ext] Re: [menog] [Paper] New IP

Top posting as the original is long; it's in full at the bottom.

Some of this makes no sense.  It is a case of asking for everything one 

can think of in the hopes of getting what one originally wants. (Erdogan 

calls it the "dance of the peacock")  That person can then say "I gave 

up all these things just to show I am working with everyone in good 

faith....all I want is "X"".  In this case "X" is the ability to surveil 

everyone at all times.

"/The requirements perceived for these use cases demand bandwidth on the 

order of one terabit per second per-flow, sub-millisecond latency, and 

zero packet loss."

/How will one have sub-millisecond latency and Tbps bandwidth with zero 

packet loss between humans on the moon and earth, for example?  How 

about when we get humans to Mars and beyond?  (DTN is how: 

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dtn/documents__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75cAtxfWw$ )  That can't happen due to 

physics, so it seems they want to build a spy network parallel to 'the 

internet'.  Not take over 'the internet'.

"/New IP advances the idea of a strong regulatory binding between an IP 

address and a user"

/This, I believe, is what it is all about.  The "X", above.  Being able 

to surveil everyone and spy on everything they do.

The ultimate non-starter is this: "/it cannot be compatible with the 

existing deployed IPv4- or IPv6-based infrastructure. As such, New IP 

would have to be deployed in parallel with the current Internet 

infrastructure, interconnecting via gateways."

/

Are they thinking they will build the "New IP Network" and attempt to 

force (economic, political, physical or ???) every network in the world 

to attach to the "New IP Network"?  That ain't gonna happen without 

major force of some sort applied to the world's network owners.  So, at 

best they will force a small subset of the world's networks to do that 

and those networks will not be able to communicate with the rest of the 

world's networks who refuse to connect.  Sadly, the users on those 

networks would be left in the dust of history.

scott

On 11/29/20 6:23 AM, Fahd Batayneh wrote:

Friends and Colleagues,

ICANN’s /Office the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)/ has published a 

new paper entitled “*New IP*”; which, you can access online here >> 

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/octo-017-en.pdf__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c75C01GSnA$ .

/Network 2030 was a focus group (FG) created by the Telecommunication 

Standardization Sector (ITU-T) Study Group 13 “to carry out a broad 

analysis for future networks towards 2030 and beyond. In order to 

formulate a right vision, this FG is expected to identify the gaps and 

challenges based on the latest networking technologies, and derive 

fundamental requirements from novel use cases.” The Network 2030 Focus 

Group concluded in July 2020, envisioning a number of futuristic use 

cases, ranging from “holographic communications” to “tactile 

Internet,” “Digital Twins,” and “Industrial IoT.” The requirements 

perceived for these use cases demand bandwidth on the order of one 

terabit per second per-flow, sub-millisecond latency, and zero packet 

loss. These requirements seem unlikely to be ubiquitously realizable 

in the assumed timeframe of ten years from now./

//

/New IP is driven by Huawei and its subsidiary, Futurewei. New IP’s 

relationship to Network 2030 is unclear because New IP proponents tend 

to use the two names interchangeably. At best, New IP can be seen as a 

set of desired features to implement the use case described in Network 

2030. However, there are no publicly available, definitive, and 

complete descriptions of what New IP is. As such, it can only be seen 

at best as “work in progress” and cannot be fully analyzed and 

compared to a standard such as the TCP/IP protocol suite. Hints can be 

found in Huawei blogs, a Futurewei Internet Draft submitted to the 

Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), slides from a guest talk at an 

Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) conference, 

and in an ITU-T liaison statement to the IETF. At a high level, New IP 

architecture introduces variable length addresses; reintroduces 

circuit-switched-like principles in what is dubbed “better than best 

effort networking”; suggests an approach to enable packets to embed 

contracts to be enforced by intermediary network elements in a way 

that is reminiscent of active networks where packets contain code to 

be executed by routers and switches; and presents the concept of 

“ManyNets” where instead of a single network, the Internet would 

become a patchwork of networks loosely interconnected via gateways. 

New IP advances the idea of a strong regulatory binding between an IP 

address and a user. If deployed, such techniques could make pervasive 

monitoring much easier because it would allow any intermediary element 

(router, switch, and so on) to have full access to exactly which user 

is doing what. Similarly, content providers would have access to the 

identity of every user connecting to them. This could dramatically 

increase the oversight of published content./

//

/Although New IP can use a new variable length addressing type, IPv4, 

IPv6, or any combination of the above, it cannot be compatible with 

the existing deployed IPv4- or IPv6-based infrastructure. As such, New 

IP would have to be deployed in parallel with the current Internet 

infrastructure, interconnecting via gateways. Any significant 

deployment would probably face decades-long timelines./

More papers published by OCTO can be found here >> 

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/octo-publications-2019-05-24-en__;!!PtGJab4!sUX37v9NZ0DMKCqtOq-QrWEzc2VoHrX97twU6jzWw48Yh1z-B-XC0_lgsGyLwaP6c742_QRWJw$ .

Thank you,

*Fahd Batayneh*

ICANN

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